Subject:
[r2001 02413] Re: site closing down
Date:
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:19:27 +0200
From:
"Aleksi Aaltonen" <aleksi.aaltonen@pp.inet.fi>
Reply-To:
r2001@uucp.ne.jp
To:
r2001@uucp.ne.jp
References:
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6


First of all, thank you everyone for your nice words. And secondly, I admire those who can, and will carry on. But I want to explain something. The reason I pulled my own site out was not because of commercial sites taking over, but simply because these commercial sites do a much better job than I could as an individual. I'm not departing from the digital community, in fact in my work I'm putting out new web sites and projects every week. And that insight has made me realize how big the web has become and much it really takes to make something worthwhile.

Don't ignore the commercial sites, there are many good ones, that actually for us are free. See, I work for a big media company, and although web sites for us obviously are commercial, we really do care about their content and work like hell to make them good and interesting and engaging for users. It's just that it takes so much resources to run a good web site, starting from servers, computers, software, graphic design, coding, promoting, project management etc - and of course the actual content production. And as an individual I could never afford it. But these commercial sites can afford to invest in content and development, and thus in the end deliver much better web sites. I think the relevance of our personal sites today is only as an online portfolio.

The web can still be a place to meet new strangers, to exchange ideas, develop new avenues. Projects like r2001 can still make a difference I think, But I guess we would need much better coordination and a better structured organization and better plans how to create great artistic experiences over the web. We have 160-something members in r2001 from all around the world, some of which are larger groups, and I guess we have sufficient know-how and resources for big web production. We just haven't done that yet. But we have had a good start. But to survive we should draft another big, detailed plan on how to make a better web service, delivering art to people. It's gotta to be more than just r2001.com and a long list of individual sites hanging around somewhere. I think it might well be worthwhile, but am not sure.

Aleksi

 

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:01:46 EST

Subject: [r2001 02419] Re: site closing down

wow! quite an exchange taking place. i just wanted to add to the comments
from a unique perspective i've recently experienced. like aleksi, i have
started working with a large web development company, london-based seven
interactive. in the last month i've worked in paris, chicago, london, and
now san francisco. right now i'm sitting in hewlett-packard headquarters in
santa clara, working on a 90,000 page website. this office is about as
corporate as you can get, but we've strung christmas lights around our
conference room-turned-studio, brought in a subwoofer and a bunch of techno
music, and -- most importantly -- set up a roomful of mac G4's -- in HP
headquarters!!

my point is, if you do something and do it well, people will naturally be
drawn to it. while the world is in a very fragile state, i came to the
conclusion some time ago that i can only do what i know is right within my
sphere of activity. i can't save the rainforests or feed the homeless by
myself, but i can work towards a world in which everyone feels that their
day-to-day activities make a difference, and lead the world in the right
direction. so many people that i encounter in this industry are thinking
along the same lines, creatively and environmentally, that i think even the
big, money-making websites are subtly moving towards a responsible,
balanced way of life, because the people building them are responsible,
balanced people. one of the best designers i've worked with in chicago,
hideki owa, recently put up an independent site, protodezign.com; the next
day he recieved 10.000 hits and got a write up in k10k. more and more,
artists are creating the world in which we live and work. we just need to
feel the confidence to keep going, keep working...

in that spirit, i'm redesigning the digital art section of r2001 again. if
you have new work or if your url's have changed, please send me a private
message at sharif@goodfoodpro.com. also, if anyone needs help hosting work,
i've got plenty of server space to offer. thanks for the provocate
exchange--


--sharif
sharif@goodfoodpro.com

 

Aleksi,

What is the core of R2001.com?
Is it not personal sites? Including yours, r2001 was formed because each
members' artistic personal home pages existed on the web! How about the
concept of LightHomes we discussed deeply when we started this project?
Your action of pulling down your personal pages is like saying LightHome
does not mean anything anymore. If there was only the sites made by
companies, then it will be the same as TV or cable TV
R2001 could not exist without each members' personal sites. Personal sites
are our bases. Is it not?

Of course, I agree with your point that we must not forget about keeping
r2001.com as attractive as possible but this is to introduce members' art.
As artists, we must continue working. And yes, we should not ignore what
the commercial sites are doing.

I am working on getting our own server. It will make a lot of difference if
we own one. I am doing my best. But this does got nothing to do with your
comments about personal sites. Deleting your won site does not make any
sense.

Seiji


In message <94934530701@molly3.emumail.net>, sharif@goodfoodpro.com
writes
>wow! quite an exchange taking place. i just wanted to add to the comments
>from a unique perspective i've recently experienced. like aleksi, i have
>started working with a large web development company, london-based seven
>interactive. in the last month i've worked in paris, chicago, london, and
>now san francisco. right now i'm sitting in hewlett-packard headquarters in
>santa clara, working on a 90,000 page website. this office is about as
>corporate as you can get, but we've strung christmas lights around our
>conference room-turned-studio, brought in a subwoofer and a bunch of techno
>music, and -- most importantly -- set up a roomful of mac G4's -- in HP
>headquarters!!
>
>my point is, if you do something and do it well, people will naturally be
>drawn to it.

Well... here's another perspective then: I work on Internet projects for
one of the world's biggest media companies, and I've never seen so many
half-assed idiots wasting money and chasing their own tails trying to
catch up with where r2001 was 18 months ago: just because the Big Boys
are getting involved, doesn't automatically mean that there is no room
left for smaller, smarter operators...

Gerald O'Connell

http://www.wonderport.com

Vasco is right to draw attention to this. Big Companies and Big
Technology can do nothing to remove the sociological impact of the
Internet: digital world citizenship offers new dimensions for freedom of
expression - including artistic expression !

Gerald O'Connell

 

From:
"Rick Duim" <rick@duim.com>



Seiji spoke:

> How about the concept of LightHomes we discussed deeply when we
> started this project? Your action of pulling down your personal
> pages is like saying LightHome does not mean anything anymore. If
> there was only the sites made by companies, then it will be the
> same as TV or cable TV R2001 could not exist without each members'
> personal sites. Personal sites are our bases. Is it not?

This is why I started in the first place. What other place could I
get exposure for my art, meet other artists, and make friends. One of
my best friends met me because she signed my guestbook and we
starting corrsponding. I also met Ansgard this way as well. It has
changed my life!

In the end, actions speak louder than words. So what if there is a
strong commercial presence on the net. Use it to your advantage! If
buy.com has the best prices, buy online. I don't see the big boys
trying to sqaush me... they could care less. The 800 or 900 people
that visit my site every month mean a lot to me. Being associated
with R2001 means a lot as well. You are all great people. Idealism
works IF we take action as a group.

Art and love,